People ‘turning back on meat’

SURGE IN INQUIRIES: Ronald Lee pictured at his group’s stall at the recent green fair at the University of Worcester.

SURGE IN INQUIRIES: Ronald Lee pictured at his group’s stall at the recent green fair at the University of Worcester.

First published in News by , Reporter

THE horsemeat scandal has seen people turning their backs on meat to take up a vegetarian or vegan diet, according to Worcestershire Vegan and Veggies (WVV).

The group has seen a marked increase in people interested in cutting meat out of their diet. Revelations about the sale of horsemeat packaged as beef has focused people’s attention on meat production and slaughterhouses.

Ronald Lee, WVV communications officer, said there had been a surge of people who had got in touch with the organisation interested in reducing their meat consumption or ditching it altogether.

Traffic to its website and Facebook page had increased and they had also had more requests from people wanting to join the mailing list. Mr Lee said: “Last week we ran a stall at the green fair at the University of Worcester and there was ever such a high interest.

“A lot of that was to do with horsemeat and people concerned about that. “I think people have a particular affection for horses like they do cats and dogs, but they don’t think of pigs or sheep or cattle having their own individual personalities like those animals.”

The increase in people interested in turning to a diet without meat began just after the news broke that beef burgers contained a percentage of horsemeat in January.

Mr Lee said: “I think it has made people think more about the food they eat and anything that gets people thinking like that is a good thing.

“I think the scandal has increased an effect that’s already happening as I’ve noticed in recent years that more people are becoming vegan or vegetarian or just reducing their consumption of meat because they are becoming more aware of food production as well as the health and environmental benefits.

“People eat without thinking what’s in their food and what is involved but this has made them question what they are eating and made them reflect.” More information about the group can be found at worcsveg.org.uk or on the Facebook group Worcestershire Vegans and Veggies.

Comments (30)

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6:24pm Sat 23 Feb 13

b1ackb1rd says...

If this is true then who were all those people queuing in my local butchers??
People are abandoning supermarket meat ... Lets hope Farmers Markets make some money out of this situation
If this is true then who were all those people queuing in my local butchers?? People are abandoning supermarket meat ... Lets hope Farmers Markets make some money out of this situation b1ackb1rd
  • Score: 0

6:59pm Sat 23 Feb 13

spider666 says...

Well i wont be giving up meat,i don't care if it's beef,lamb,pork,horse or any other type,so long as i know what it is.And just a thought,if we all turned Veggie,what would happen to the millions of animals throughout the world that have been bred for the food market ? i'll tell you,they will be killed and most of them will probably be done so in a inhumane way to save money.
Well i wont be giving up meat,i don't care if it's beef,lamb,pork,horse or any other type,so long as i know what it is.And just a thought,if we all turned Veggie,what would happen to the millions of animals throughout the world that have been bred for the food market ? i'll tell you,they will be killed and most of them will probably be done so in a inhumane way to save money. spider666
  • Score: 0

7:44pm Sat 23 Feb 13

sharpy says...

Why do so many of the veggie alternatives to meat attempt to look like the real thing? Veggie burgers, veggie sausages, veggie bacon, soya milk, the list is endless. If you are a true veggie you shouldn't need your food to look like meat.
We have to ask if it's wrong to eat animals then why are they so very tasty when roasted casseroled or fried?
Spider 666 is absolutely right to question the outcome of a so called veggie revolution. This country would be even less able to feed itself. Try growing cereals pulses and beans in majority of Wales, most of the land there is only good for timber, sheep and a few cattle.
Anyway, enough said I'm off out for a kebab !
Why do so many of the veggie alternatives to meat attempt to look like the real thing? Veggie burgers, veggie sausages, veggie bacon, soya milk, the list is endless. If you are a true veggie you shouldn't need your food to look like meat. We have to ask if it's wrong to eat animals then why are they so very tasty when roasted casseroled or fried? Spider 666 is absolutely right to question the outcome of a so called veggie revolution. This country would be even less able to feed itself. Try growing cereals pulses and beans in majority of Wales, most of the land there is only good for timber, sheep and a few cattle. Anyway, enough said I'm off out for a kebab ! sharpy
  • Score: 0

8:33pm Sat 23 Feb 13

Arthur Blenkinsop says...

'What would happen to all the millions of animals.......?'
They would just wander about the world, eating the grass, getting free health care and getting nice and fat for nothing of course! :-)
'What would happen to all the millions of animals.......?' They would just wander about the world, eating the grass, getting free health care and getting nice and fat for nothing of course! :-) Arthur Blenkinsop
  • Score: 0

8:43pm Sat 23 Feb 13

pinkfluff says...

sharpy wrote:
Why do so many of the veggie alternatives to meat attempt to look like the real thing? Veggie burgers, veggie sausages, veggie bacon, soya milk, the list is endless. If you are a true veggie you shouldn't need your food to look like meat.
We have to ask if it's wrong to eat animals then why are they so very tasty when roasted casseroled or fried?
Spider 666 is absolutely right to question the outcome of a so called veggie revolution. This country would be even less able to feed itself. Try growing cereals pulses and beans in majority of Wales, most of the land there is only good for timber, sheep and a few cattle.
Anyway, enough said I'm off out for a kebab !
Indeed, I have asked the same question for years. I don't eat meat and I'm not looking for a meat substitute but people just don't get it. I've had this argument many a time. If you are expecting meat "substitutes" to taste anything like meat then you will be disappointed.

P.S I just want to let people know that I don't disagree with eating meat, I just choose not too.
[quote][p][bold]sharpy[/bold] wrote: Why do so many of the veggie alternatives to meat attempt to look like the real thing? Veggie burgers, veggie sausages, veggie bacon, soya milk, the list is endless. If you are a true veggie you shouldn't need your food to look like meat. We have to ask if it's wrong to eat animals then why are they so very tasty when roasted casseroled or fried? Spider 666 is absolutely right to question the outcome of a so called veggie revolution. This country would be even less able to feed itself. Try growing cereals pulses and beans in majority of Wales, most of the land there is only good for timber, sheep and a few cattle. Anyway, enough said I'm off out for a kebab ![/p][/quote]Indeed, I have asked the same question for years. I don't eat meat and I'm not looking for a meat substitute but people just don't get it. I've had this argument many a time. If you are expecting meat "substitutes" to taste anything like meat then you will be disappointed. P.S I just want to let people know that I don't disagree with eating meat, I just choose not too. pinkfluff
  • Score: 0

9:38pm Sat 23 Feb 13

RonaldLee says...

People turning veggie (or preferably vegan) is bound to be a gradual process, so as time went on, fewer and fewer animals would end up being bred to be killed. There would be no mass slaughter greater than there is at the moment and we wouldn't witness a large number of cows, pigs, sheep etc. wandering the world.
There are vegans and veggies who don't eat meat substitutes, but for people brought up on the taste of meat it can be easier for them to switch to a non-meat diet if there are meat-like substitutes available. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating such substitutes, because they are not the product of suffering and slaughter, so the fact that they may look or taste like meat is neither here nor there.
The fact that meat may taste nice is no excuse to eat it. Cooked human babies may taste nice for all I know but that would not be a justification for killing and eating them. Those in some far eastern countries who eat dogs and cats would probably try to justify that by saying they taste nice too.
We would not need to worry about growing cereals and pulses where they are not grown at the moment if everyone adopted a vegan diet, as without having to feed such crops to farmed animals, only one third of the agricultural land we have at present would be needed to feed us.
The bottom line is that humans can live perfectly healthily on a diet free from animal products. If we did so, this would avoid a huge amount of animal slaughter and suffering, be better for the environment and our own health and enable us to more easily feed the world's population.
For more info, take a look at the websites of organisations like The Vegan Society, Viva! and Animal Aid.
People turning veggie (or preferably vegan) is bound to be a gradual process, so as time went on, fewer and fewer animals would end up being bred to be killed. There would be no mass slaughter greater than there is at the moment and we wouldn't witness a large number of cows, pigs, sheep etc. wandering the world. There are vegans and veggies who don't eat meat substitutes, but for people brought up on the taste of meat it can be easier for them to switch to a non-meat diet if there are meat-like substitutes available. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating such substitutes, because they are not the product of suffering and slaughter, so the fact that they may look or taste like meat is neither here nor there. The fact that meat may taste nice is no excuse to eat it. Cooked human babies may taste nice for all I know but that would not be a justification for killing and eating them. Those in some far eastern countries who eat dogs and cats would probably try to justify that by saying they taste nice too. We would not need to worry about growing cereals and pulses where they are not grown at the moment if everyone adopted a vegan diet, as without having to feed such crops to farmed animals, only one third of the agricultural land we have at present would be needed to feed us. The bottom line is that humans can live perfectly healthily on a diet free from animal products. If we did so, this would avoid a huge amount of animal slaughter and suffering, be better for the environment and our own health and enable us to more easily feed the world's population. For more info, take a look at the websites of organisations like The Vegan Society, Viva! and Animal Aid. RonaldLee
  • Score: 0

9:48pm Sat 23 Feb 13

pudniw_gib says...

I havent eaten meat for 30 years and am doing ok .. pretty physical job and competing in cycle racing ata reasonable level. To me I really cant see the point in eating animals.
Its not straightforward getting protein but its not so difficult that I resort to even dairy products.
Apart from animal welfare there are other issues such as land use and human health problems.
I havent eaten meat for 30 years and am doing ok .. pretty physical job and competing in cycle racing ata reasonable level. To me I really cant see the point in eating animals. Its not straightforward getting protein but its not so difficult that I resort to even dairy products. Apart from animal welfare there are other issues such as land use and human health problems. pudniw_gib
  • Score: 0

10:24pm Sat 23 Feb 13

New Kid on the Block says...

Would that be the same Ronnie Lee who has a history of attacking Pharmaceutical Companies and arson for which he has been jailed.
He also has a record of openly condoning violence.
I can't believe that there are many people who post on this site who support his actions.
Would that be the same Ronnie Lee who has a history of attacking Pharmaceutical Companies and arson for which he has been jailed. He also has a record of openly condoning violence. I can't believe that there are many people who post on this site who support his actions. New Kid on the Block
  • Score: 0

8:56am Sun 24 Feb 13

sharpy says...

Another question for the veggies, what is the smallest animal that you will allow to be harmed or killed in the process of feeding yourselves ?

You have an excellent view of the situation Pinkfluff, eat what you want and don't force others to have your diet. I am an omnivore, eating meat fruit and veg. There is nothing wrong with this or a vegetarian or vegan diet.
Don't let the food fascists dictate what we eat !!!!!
Another question for the veggies, what is the smallest animal that you will allow to be harmed or killed in the process of feeding yourselves ? You have an excellent view of the situation Pinkfluff, eat what you want and don't force others to have your diet. I am an omnivore, eating meat fruit and veg. There is nothing wrong with this or a vegetarian or vegan diet. Don't let the food fascists dictate what we eat !!!!! sharpy
  • Score: 0

12:09pm Sun 24 Feb 13

pinkfluff says...

Thanks Sharpy.
It's because of the views of folk like RonaldLee that I don't let on that I don't eat meat unless I HAVE too. Hence the disclaimer at the bottom of my post.
Thanks Sharpy. It's because of the views of folk like RonaldLee that I don't let on that I don't eat meat unless I HAVE too. Hence the disclaimer at the bottom of my post. pinkfluff
  • Score: 0

1:35pm Sun 24 Feb 13

RonaldLee says...

In reply to Sharpy, it's obviously impossible for us to live on the Earth without other animals being harmed and affected by us being here, but we can do our reasonable best to try to minimise this and being vegan is part of that.
It's sad that people like New Kid on the Block are so determined to defend the abuse of other animals that they accuse me of being someone who openly condones violence. Perhaps they need to look at the horrific violence done every day to millions of innocent animals by arrogant and selfish human beings and perhaps change there own lives to reduce their contribution to this appalling situation.
In reply to Sharpy, it's obviously impossible for us to live on the Earth without other animals being harmed and affected by us being here, but we can do our reasonable best to try to minimise this and being vegan is part of that. It's sad that people like New Kid on the Block are so determined to defend the abuse of other animals that they accuse me of being someone who openly condones violence. Perhaps they need to look at the horrific violence done every day to millions of innocent animals by arrogant and selfish human beings and perhaps change there own lives to reduce their contribution to this appalling situation. RonaldLee
  • Score: 0

2:33pm Sun 24 Feb 13

batchelorboy says...

I rarely eat meat - because I can't afford it.

If horse meat turned out to be cheaper I would eat it, along with most animal meats that are apparently offensive to eat.

Humans are predators to most animals, it's the way of life. Do we criticise dogs for loving meat?? No. I laugh at veggie products I see for pets. I would never force my dogs to be veggie, it's in their nature to want meat.
I rarely eat meat - because I can't afford it. If horse meat turned out to be cheaper I would eat it, along with most animal meats that are apparently offensive to eat. Humans are predators to most animals, it's the way of life. Do we criticise dogs for loving meat?? No. I laugh at veggie products I see for pets. I would never force my dogs to be veggie, it's in their nature to want meat. batchelorboy
  • Score: 0

2:44pm Sun 24 Feb 13

New Kid on the Block says...

This quote from Ronnie Lee in 1990 illustrates just how extreme his views are. It is completely unamended taken from the website of an organisation he founded.

Too often animal rights campaigners, heavily involved in their constant battle against vivisection, factory farming, the fur trade etc, ignore the extent to which animals are persecuted by the destruction of the environment. Vivisection labs and factory farms may well be the concentration camps of the human Reich, but they are, in a sense, only the tip of the iceberg of animal persecution and getting rid of them would only go part of the way to giving the animals back their freedom. More animal suffering and oppression probably arises from environmental destruction than from any other single cause.

It would do well for us to speak of human imperialism. Not content with just having its fair share of the planet, the human species has everywhere invaded and despoiled territories which rightfully belong to other creatures. Perhaps the worst words ever spoken (if, indeed, they were) were "Go forth and multiply". A call for a human occupation of the world similar to that of the Nazis for "Lebensraum". Thus the end of vivisection labs, of factory farms, will never be enough because it still leaves behind the injustice and oppression of the original "enemy" occupation. True animal liberation will not come merely through the destruction of the Dachaus and Buchenwalds that the occupiers have built for their victims, but demands nothing less than the driving back of the human species to pre-invasion boundaries.

So, in practical terms, what does this mean? It means the end of environmental pollution and the industrial society which causes it. The end of such things as the private car. The end of methods of agriculture relying on pesticides, artificial fertilizers and other poisons. The end of cities and vast urban conurbations, which are like deserts to most wild animal species. The end of large-scale farming which provides little habitat for them either. And perhaps above all, a drastic cut in the number of the human species. The radical American environmental group Earth First! has estimated that the right level of human population world wide should be about 50 million.Today more than that number live just in Britain.

Thus true animal liberation doesn't just require a tinkering with the worst excesses of human oppression but widespread and radical changes in the very way we live. The only form of human society conducive to the just treatment of other creatures is one which is decentralized with people living in small communities rather than towns or cities, de-industrialized, employing small scale organic (veganic), methods of farming and with a vast reductIon in human numbers (by humane methods of course).

Sadly this may all be too much for many "animal protectionists" who still want their jobs their cars their umpteen kids, their domestic appliances. But half a liberation is no liberation. Animal rights campaigning needs to extend itself to other areas which hitherto it has hardly touched on. To fighting against pollution, industrialization and habitat destruction.
This quote from Ronnie Lee in 1990 illustrates just how extreme his views are. It is completely unamended taken from the website of an organisation he founded. Too often animal rights campaigners, heavily involved in their constant battle against vivisection, factory farming, the fur trade etc, ignore the extent to which animals are persecuted by the destruction of the environment. Vivisection labs and factory farms may well be the concentration camps of the human Reich, but they are, in a sense, only the tip of the iceberg of animal persecution and getting rid of them would only go part of the way to giving the animals back their freedom. More animal suffering and oppression probably arises from environmental destruction than from any other single cause. It would do well for us to speak of human imperialism. Not content with just having its fair share of the planet, the human species has everywhere invaded and despoiled territories which rightfully belong to other creatures. Perhaps the worst words ever spoken (if, indeed, they were) were "Go forth and multiply". A call for a human occupation of the world similar to that of the Nazis for "Lebensraum". Thus the end of vivisection labs, of factory farms, will never be enough because it still leaves behind the injustice and oppression of the original "enemy" occupation. True animal liberation will not come merely through the destruction of the Dachaus and Buchenwalds that the occupiers have built for their victims, but demands nothing less than the driving back of the human species to pre-invasion boundaries. So, in practical terms, what does this mean? It means the end of environmental pollution and the industrial society which causes it. The end of such things as the private car. The end of methods of agriculture relying on pesticides, artificial fertilizers and other poisons. The end of cities and vast urban conurbations, which are like deserts to most wild animal species. The end of large-scale farming which provides little habitat for them either. And perhaps above all, a drastic cut in the number of the human species. The radical American environmental group Earth First! has estimated that the right level of human population world wide should be about 50 million.Today more than that number live just in Britain. Thus true animal liberation doesn't just require a tinkering with the worst excesses of human oppression but widespread and radical changes in the very way we live. The only form of human society conducive to the just treatment of other creatures is one which is decentralized with people living in small communities rather than towns or cities, de-industrialized, employing small scale organic (veganic), methods of farming and with a vast reductIon in human numbers (by humane methods of course). Sadly this may all be too much for many "animal protectionists" who still want their jobs their cars their umpteen kids, their domestic appliances. But half a liberation is no liberation. Animal rights campaigning needs to extend itself to other areas which hitherto it has hardly touched on. To fighting against pollution, industrialization and habitat destruction. New Kid on the Block
  • Score: 0

6:29pm Sun 24 Feb 13

Frodo 4d says...

I certainly wouldn't cut meat out of my diet, beef, horse, kangaroo, monkey gland sauce, anything! I don't really care if I know what it is or not as long as it tastes good I am happy.

In fact kangaroo is the best meat I have ever tried! I wish they sold that in supermarkets etc...

People are only turning vegetarian because they are scared of change. People need to open there eyes!! Or mouths to the wide variety of tastes out there!!
I certainly wouldn't cut meat out of my diet, beef, horse, kangaroo, monkey gland sauce, anything! I don't really care if I know what it is or not as long as it tastes good I am happy. In fact kangaroo is the best meat I have ever tried! I wish they sold that in supermarkets etc... People are only turning vegetarian because they are scared of change. People need to open there eyes!! Or mouths to the wide variety of tastes out there!! Frodo 4d
  • Score: 0

6:54pm Sun 24 Feb 13

lizzyloolah says...

I read RonaldLee's first post with interest. Until I got to the 'cooked human babies' bit and thought 'twerp'!
I read RonaldLee's first post with interest. Until I got to the 'cooked human babies' bit and thought 'twerp'! lizzyloolah
  • Score: 0

10:13pm Sun 24 Feb 13

Vox populi says...

Tastes even better when you shoot it yourself first! Can be quite sure it's not horse too.

Murderer? Maybe, hungry, you betcha!
Tastes even better when you shoot it yourself first! Can be quite sure it's not horse too. Murderer? Maybe, hungry, you betcha! Vox populi
  • Score: 0

10:24am Mon 25 Feb 13

Saintinexile says...

I hear that you can get a nice vegetarian chicken curry at ASDA
I hear that you can get a nice vegetarian chicken curry at ASDA Saintinexile
  • Score: 0

12:52pm Mon 25 Feb 13

pinkfluff says...

Saintinexile wrote:
I hear that you can get a nice vegetarian chicken curry at ASDA
pinkfluff likes ^ this :-)
[quote][p][bold]Saintinexile[/bold] wrote: I hear that you can get a nice vegetarian chicken curry at ASDA[/p][/quote]pinkfluff likes ^ this :-) pinkfluff
  • Score: 0

12:53pm Mon 25 Feb 13

MJI says...

Actually people are turning to butchers instead.
.
And he has made me hungry with his picture of food.
.
From the article and the other replies we can agree he is a nutcase.
.
Hillside farming, just about the only food which can be grown there are animals, we cannot eat grass, only grasses grow, so we eat the grass eaters.
.
BTW no attacks on veggies.
Actually people are turning to butchers instead. . And he has made me hungry with his picture of food. . From the article and the other replies we can agree he is a nutcase. . Hillside farming, just about the only food which can be grown there are animals, we cannot eat grass, only grasses grow, so we eat the grass eaters. . BTW no attacks on veggies. MJI
  • Score: 0

6:32pm Mon 25 Feb 13

New Kid on the Block says...

MJI talks sense.
Welsh Mountain Lamb, Grass fed Beef, Saltmarsh Lamb,Wild Rabbit,Venison etc, all top quality delicious food.
I also like my fruit and vegetables.
I buy my meat from proper butchers and when the opportunity arises I am not averse to shooting it myself.Most of my fruit and veg comes from farm shops or is home grown. Very little of what I eat comes from supermarkets.
What other people want to eat is up to them. I shall eat what I like and you can eat what you like.
MJI talks sense. Welsh Mountain Lamb, Grass fed Beef, Saltmarsh Lamb,Wild Rabbit,Venison etc, all top quality delicious food. I also like my fruit and vegetables. I buy my meat from proper butchers and when the opportunity arises I am not averse to shooting it myself.Most of my fruit and veg comes from farm shops or is home grown. Very little of what I eat comes from supermarkets. What other people want to eat is up to them. I shall eat what I like and you can eat what you like. New Kid on the Block
  • Score: 0

9:39am Tue 26 Feb 13

Arthur Blenkinsop says...

I shall carry on eating meat of all sorts. I never buy supermarket meat and haven't done for decades. My favourites - wild rabbit, dogged or ferreted, venison, English local low-land fat lamb!
Fruit and veg come from anywhere except supermarkets - fresher, nicer and in the longrun cheaper!
I also eat meals with no meat, but i don't make a distinction between veggie and non-veggie, it's just tasty food to be enjoyed.
I shall carry on eating meat of all sorts. I never buy supermarket meat and haven't done for decades. My favourites - wild rabbit, dogged or ferreted, venison, English local low-land fat lamb! Fruit and veg come from anywhere except supermarkets - fresher, nicer and in the longrun cheaper! I also eat meals with no meat, but i don't make a distinction between veggie and non-veggie, it's just tasty food to be enjoyed. Arthur Blenkinsop
  • Score: 0

10:33am Tue 26 Feb 13

Respectable says...

Is there anythig better than the smell of sizzling bacon or the Sunday roast.

Each to their own. You just don't get that glorious smell from a bowl of cous-cous or a nut cutlet.

Bon Appetit
Is there anythig better than the smell of sizzling bacon or the Sunday roast. Each to their own. You just don't get that glorious smell from a bowl of cous-cous or a nut cutlet. Bon Appetit Respectable
  • Score: 0

11:10am Tue 26 Feb 13

MJI says...

I do try to avoid imported meats as welfare standards are so important, happy food tastes better.
I do try to avoid imported meats as welfare standards are so important, happy food tastes better. MJI
  • Score: 0

2:06pm Tue 26 Feb 13

Vox populi says...

Talking of meat, anyone seen the size of the bunny on this story page... :-)

http://www.worcester
news.co.uk/news/1023
8089.Big_Brother_bec
kons_for_bunny_girl_
Annette/?ref=mc
Talking of meat, anyone seen the size of the bunny on this story page... :-) http://www.worcester news.co.uk/news/1023 8089.Big_Brother_bec kons_for_bunny_girl_ Annette/?ref=mc Vox populi
  • Score: 0

9:00pm Tue 26 Feb 13

Lew Smoralz says...

Eating a vegetable diet is plagued with as many issues in its food chain as meat.

The farmers use of chemicals to grow, and protect crops from disease and pests is horrific when you see it spelt out. Then, the supermarkets insist on the use of chemical sprays and gasses to lengthen shelf life.

We live in a country where the climate only allows the growing of food locally for 6 months of the year, so we have to import food, and we have no control over any sort of vegetable food chain, as we have seen with meat.

Something awful has gone wrong with our food supply and food chain. I am told that often we eat potatoes that have been 6 months in warehouses and lorries before arriving on our plates.

The problem is not meat -vs- veggie, and it is the whole food chain, which is now operated by international corporations answerable to their shareholders only.
Eating a vegetable diet is plagued with as many issues in its food chain as meat. The farmers use of chemicals to grow, and protect crops from disease and pests is horrific when you see it spelt out. Then, the supermarkets insist on the use of chemical sprays and gasses to lengthen shelf life. We live in a country where the climate only allows the growing of food locally for 6 months of the year, so we have to import food, and we have no control over any sort of vegetable food chain, as we have seen with meat. Something awful has gone wrong with our food supply and food chain. I am told that often we eat potatoes that have been 6 months in warehouses and lorries before arriving on our plates. The problem is not meat -vs- veggie, and it is the whole food chain, which is now operated by international corporations answerable to their shareholders only. Lew Smoralz
  • Score: 0

10:21am Wed 27 Feb 13

Andy-Apache says...

"The bottom line is that humans can live perfectly healthily on a diet free from animal products. "

That's as maybe, but the fact remains, humans did not evolve to live on a diet with no meat.

Your argument is akin to saying 'people can live perfectly well without flying' - 'people can live perfectly well without cars' etc etc. Yes, we could, but it would be daft and fraught with problems.

As others have pointed out, this isn't an issue with whether we eat meat or not, but veggies will always grab it to bang their particular drum.

If you want beef, you can't have it for nothing. A box of burgers for 50p? Sorry, the economies don't work - it's going to be 'something else'. If you want decent quality food, you have to pay decent money. It costs. Forego your latest smartphone and huge LED telly, and buy yourself decent food from a chain traceable back to the farm instead of giving your money to faceless supermarkets. It's your choice.
"The bottom line is that humans can live perfectly healthily on a diet free from animal products. " That's as maybe, but the fact remains, humans did not evolve to live on a diet with no meat. Your argument is akin to saying 'people can live perfectly well without flying' - 'people can live perfectly well without cars' etc etc. Yes, we could, but it would be daft and fraught with problems. As others have pointed out, this isn't an issue with whether we eat meat or not, but veggies will always grab it to bang their particular drum. If you want beef, you can't have it for nothing. A box of burgers for 50p? Sorry, the economies don't work - it's going to be 'something else'. If you want decent quality food, you have to pay decent money. It costs. Forego your latest smartphone and huge LED telly, and buy yourself decent food from a chain traceable back to the farm instead of giving your money to faceless supermarkets. It's your choice. Andy-Apache
  • Score: 0

6:55pm Wed 27 Feb 13

JonnySpeed says...

Its 'vegetarians' that I hate most. You know the animals are still farmed and many millions of calves and chickens are killed as part of you still drinking milk and eating eggs. There is nothing more hypocritical than a vegetarian.

Go vegan.
Its 'vegetarians' that I hate most. You know the animals are still farmed and many millions of calves and chickens are killed as part of you still drinking milk and eating eggs. There is nothing more hypocritical than a vegetarian. Go vegan. JonnySpeed
  • Score: 0

9:10am Thu 28 Feb 13

MJI says...

Well I am glad I use a butchers for our meat.
Well I am glad I use a butchers for our meat. MJI
  • Score: 0

1:31pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Vox populi says...

End of the day its choice.

If you don't preach to me about the merits of carrots I won't tell you how tasty bacon is.

Simple, what I eat and what you eat has nothing to do with anyone except ourselves.
End of the day its choice. If you don't preach to me about the merits of carrots I won't tell you how tasty bacon is. Simple, what I eat and what you eat has nothing to do with anyone except ourselves. Vox populi
  • Score: 0

11:58am Fri 1 Mar 13

gemma6 says...

RonaldLee wrote:
People turning veggie (or preferably vegan) is bound to be a gradual process, so as time went on, fewer and fewer animals would end up being bred to be killed. There would be no mass slaughter greater than there is at the moment and we wouldn't witness a large number of cows, pigs, sheep etc. wandering the world.
There are vegans and veggies who don't eat meat substitutes, but for people brought up on the taste of meat it can be easier for them to switch to a non-meat diet if there are meat-like substitutes available. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating such substitutes, because they are not the product of suffering and slaughter, so the fact that they may look or taste like meat is neither here nor there.
The fact that meat may taste nice is no excuse to eat it. Cooked human babies may taste nice for all I know but that would not be a justification for killing and eating them. Those in some far eastern countries who eat dogs and cats would probably try to justify that by saying they taste nice too.
We would not need to worry about growing cereals and pulses where they are not grown at the moment if everyone adopted a vegan diet, as without having to feed such crops to farmed animals, only one third of the agricultural land we have at present would be needed to feed us.
The bottom line is that humans can live perfectly healthily on a diet free from animal products. If we did so, this would avoid a huge amount of animal slaughter and suffering, be better for the environment and our own health and enable us to more easily feed the world's population.
For more info, take a look at the websites of organisations like The Vegan Society, Viva! and Animal Aid.
Well said!
[quote][p][bold]RonaldLee[/bold] wrote: People turning veggie (or preferably vegan) is bound to be a gradual process, so as time went on, fewer and fewer animals would end up being bred to be killed. There would be no mass slaughter greater than there is at the moment and we wouldn't witness a large number of cows, pigs, sheep etc. wandering the world. There are vegans and veggies who don't eat meat substitutes, but for people brought up on the taste of meat it can be easier for them to switch to a non-meat diet if there are meat-like substitutes available. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating such substitutes, because they are not the product of suffering and slaughter, so the fact that they may look or taste like meat is neither here nor there. The fact that meat may taste nice is no excuse to eat it. Cooked human babies may taste nice for all I know but that would not be a justification for killing and eating them. Those in some far eastern countries who eat dogs and cats would probably try to justify that by saying they taste nice too. We would not need to worry about growing cereals and pulses where they are not grown at the moment if everyone adopted a vegan diet, as without having to feed such crops to farmed animals, only one third of the agricultural land we have at present would be needed to feed us. The bottom line is that humans can live perfectly healthily on a diet free from animal products. If we did so, this would avoid a huge amount of animal slaughter and suffering, be better for the environment and our own health and enable us to more easily feed the world's population. For more info, take a look at the websites of organisations like The Vegan Society, Viva! and Animal Aid.[/p][/quote]Well said! gemma6
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