Ambulance staff morale ‘in freefall’ over wages

IN THE LINE OF DUTY: An ambulanceman ferries patient in need of oxygen to hospital.

IN THE LINE OF DUTY: An ambulanceman ferries patient in need of oxygen to hospital.

First published in News by

AMBULANCE staff feel “downtrodden and bullied” and are “treated with no respect” by their bosses, a paramedic has claimed.

A West Midlands Ambulance Service worker said morale was in freefall due to disputes over a threat to sick pay and changes to working conditions.

Nationally, ambulance service employers and unions are locked in discussions over proposed pay changes that would result in an additional “anti-social hours” payment for working nights and weekends being cut from sick pay.

Staff are also up in arms about proposals from West Midlands Ambulance Service that would see bosses dictate where they have to take their unpaid meal breaks.One employee, who has asked to remain anonymous, told your Worcester News that the rows are taking their toll on staff.

“Ambulance staff feel undervalued and morale is incredibly low,” our source said. “Deductions could cut sick pay by 25 per cent. We do have a higher incidence of sickness than other workers, which shouldn’t come as a surprise as we come into contact with sick people many times every shift. And we encounter manual handling challenges that most people couldn’t even dream of and our job can be extremely stressful.”

Workers also say it is “unreasonable” for bosses to dictate where the single, unpaid 30-minute break they get in a 12-hour shift may be taken.

“I get that break at my base station, the same place as I start and finish,” an employee said.” I have hot food that I prepare at home, take to work and store in a fridge. This ensures I get a decent meal. Now our management want to tell us where to take our break. This could be at another station, a stand-by point or at a hospital.”

West Midlands Ambulance Service spokesman Suzie Fothergill insisted bosses do value the efforts of staff.

She said sick pay had not been altered and that ongoing negotiations are a national matter and out of the trust’s hands.0 She added that discussions about meal breaks are ongoing and that “no changes have been made at present.

Comments (20)

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9:07pm Thu 12 Dec 13

blueworcs says...

I haven't had a pay rise for 6 years, some days I don't get time for a break and have to gulp a sarnie down while driving a Fork Lift and I DON'T get paid If I'm off sick for the first 3 days(then SSP kicks In).....STOP WHINGEING AND GET ON WITH IT....IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE......unless your In Politics............
..........
I haven't had a pay rise for 6 years, some days I don't get time for a break and have to gulp a sarnie down while driving a Fork Lift and I DON'T get paid If I'm off sick for the first 3 days(then SSP kicks In).....STOP WHINGEING AND GET ON WITH IT....IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE......unless your In Politics............ .......... blueworcs
  • Score: -61

12:38am Fri 13 Dec 13

CJH says...

blueworcs wrote:
I haven't had a pay rise for 6 years, some days I don't get time for a break and have to gulp a sarnie down while driving a Fork Lift and I DON'T get paid If I'm off sick for the first 3 days(then SSP kicks In).....STOP WHINGEING AND GET ON WITH IT....IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE......unless your In Politics............

..........
You are legally entitled to a break. So have one and stop whinging. You're eating while driving an FLT? Health and Safety must love you. If you have an accident while eating and driving a dangerous machine who will scrape you up off the floor? Would that be paramedics? The same people who have to look after drunks and drug addicts whether they want to or not, get god knows what bodily fluids over them, deal with death and serious injuries?
[quote][p][bold]blueworcs[/bold] wrote: I haven't had a pay rise for 6 years, some days I don't get time for a break and have to gulp a sarnie down while driving a Fork Lift and I DON'T get paid If I'm off sick for the first 3 days(then SSP kicks In).....STOP WHINGEING AND GET ON WITH IT....IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE......unless your In Politics............ ..........[/p][/quote]You are legally entitled to a break. So have one and stop whinging. You're eating while driving an FLT? Health and Safety must love you. If you have an accident while eating and driving a dangerous machine who will scrape you up off the floor? Would that be paramedics? The same people who have to look after drunks and drug addicts whether they want to or not, get god knows what bodily fluids over them, deal with death and serious injuries? CJH
  • Score: 60

1:27am Fri 13 Dec 13

Ellie2311 says...

You come and do a shift of mine and I'll do a shift on your fork lift truck and then we'll see who will be whinging!!
When was the last time you were verbally or physically assaulted in the line of duty? When was the last time you had to tell somebody that their loved one has just died? Or when was the last time you were called to a patient that has overdosed on heroin?
If you can answer any of those questions then I'll eat my hat. If not, be grateful that there are people like me who put up with crap so that we can earn a wage and look after disrespectful people like you and all for less than what I would get sitting on my arse working in tesco!!
You come and do a shift of mine and I'll do a shift on your fork lift truck and then we'll see who will be whinging!! When was the last time you were verbally or physically assaulted in the line of duty? When was the last time you had to tell somebody that their loved one has just died? Or when was the last time you were called to a patient that has overdosed on heroin? If you can answer any of those questions then I'll eat my hat. If not, be grateful that there are people like me who put up with crap so that we can earn a wage and look after disrespectful people like you and all for less than what I would get sitting on my arse working in tesco!! Ellie2311
  • Score: 62

1:46am Fri 13 Dec 13

TinFoilHat says...

I agree with both the above. You can take your FLT ticket anywhere, so if you don't like it then work somewhere better. Ambo service don't have that luxury, neither do the police, armed forces, etc. They're all bearing the brunt and getting on with their job with increased responsibility as the financial pressures bite. They want to speak up in the local rag, then please let them, at least they're not going on strike like other public services.
I agree with both the above. You can take your FLT ticket anywhere, so if you don't like it then work somewhere better. Ambo service don't have that luxury, neither do the police, armed forces, etc. They're all bearing the brunt and getting on with their job with increased responsibility as the financial pressures bite. They want to speak up in the local rag, then please let them, at least they're not going on strike like other public services. TinFoilHat
  • Score: 41

7:36am Fri 13 Dec 13

stu2010 says...

The story doesn't mention how much they are actually on so we don't know how big their whinge is
The story doesn't mention how much they are actually on so we don't know how big their whinge is stu2010
  • Score: -1

8:11am Fri 13 Dec 13

SayWhatNow says...

Well
Well SayWhatNow
  • Score: 0

8:34am Fri 13 Dec 13

SayWhatNow says...

Ambulance staff work in varied environments, see things you would never see in your life on a daily basis. Come into contact with contagious disease every day, no barrier nursing protection. Lift obese people from confined spaces to save there life risking our health / backs in the process. Deliver babies, treat you like a doctor, sit with you in your car and save your life as the roof is being cut off. Go into places that you couldn't stand the smell for 30 seconds with no protection. So maybe just maybe we might get sick a little more than yourself.

No food allowed in ambulance due to infection control, not our choice. Forced into unpaid meal breaks, when we happily worked 12 hours without a guaranteed break to help people.
Work unsocial hours, having pension cuts, pay freeze for 4 years and general first line of abuse for drunken patients.
So forgive us fork lift truck driver for being a little grieved about these changes. If you want to eat as you work a fork lift then feel free, but remember when you have that accident... Who yah gonna call ( not ghost busters that's a fact )...We are not whinging , plus many sectors of emergency service armed forces and all jobs having to take cuts. So everyone suffering. We are just voicing our concerns...and yes I do enjoy my job and earn a lot less than some people who answer a phone for the nhs.
Ambulance staff work in varied environments, see things you would never see in your life on a daily basis. Come into contact with contagious disease every day, no barrier nursing protection. Lift obese people from confined spaces to save there life risking our health / backs in the process. Deliver babies, treat you like a doctor, sit with you in your car and save your life as the roof is being cut off. Go into places that you couldn't stand the smell for 30 seconds with no protection. So maybe just maybe we might get sick a little more than yourself. No food allowed in ambulance due to infection control, not our choice. Forced into unpaid meal breaks, when we happily worked 12 hours without a guaranteed break to help people. Work unsocial hours, having pension cuts, pay freeze for 4 years and general first line of abuse for drunken patients. So forgive us fork lift truck driver for being a little grieved about these changes. If you want to eat as you work a fork lift then feel free, but remember when you have that accident... Who yah gonna call ( not ghost busters that's a fact )...We are not whinging , plus many sectors of emergency service armed forces and all jobs having to take cuts. So everyone suffering. We are just voicing our concerns...and yes I do enjoy my job and earn a lot less than some people who answer a phone for the nhs. SayWhatNow
  • Score: 28

8:38am Fri 13 Dec 13

stu2010 says...

SayWhatNow wrote:
Ambulance staff work in varied environments, see things you would never see in your life on a daily basis. Come into contact with contagious disease every day, no barrier nursing protection. Lift obese people from confined spaces to save there life risking our health / backs in the process. Deliver babies, treat you like a doctor, sit with you in your car and save your life as the roof is being cut off. Go into places that you couldn't stand the smell for 30 seconds with no protection. So maybe just maybe we might get sick a little more than yourself.

No food allowed in ambulance due to infection control, not our choice. Forced into unpaid meal breaks, when we happily worked 12 hours without a guaranteed break to help people.
Work unsocial hours, having pension cuts, pay freeze for 4 years and general first line of abuse for drunken patients.
So forgive us fork lift truck driver for being a little grieved about these changes. If you want to eat as you work a fork lift then feel free, but remember when you have that accident... Who yah gonna call ( not ghost busters that's a fact )...We are not whinging , plus many sectors of emergency service armed forces and all jobs having to take cuts. So everyone suffering. We are just voicing our concerns...and yes I do enjoy my job and earn a lot less than some people who answer a phone for the nhs.
Yes but how much you being paid to do this? We want to know how big the whinge is so we can understand.
[quote][p][bold]SayWhatNow[/bold] wrote: Ambulance staff work in varied environments, see things you would never see in your life on a daily basis. Come into contact with contagious disease every day, no barrier nursing protection. Lift obese people from confined spaces to save there life risking our health / backs in the process. Deliver babies, treat you like a doctor, sit with you in your car and save your life as the roof is being cut off. Go into places that you couldn't stand the smell for 30 seconds with no protection. So maybe just maybe we might get sick a little more than yourself. No food allowed in ambulance due to infection control, not our choice. Forced into unpaid meal breaks, when we happily worked 12 hours without a guaranteed break to help people. Work unsocial hours, having pension cuts, pay freeze for 4 years and general first line of abuse for drunken patients. So forgive us fork lift truck driver for being a little grieved about these changes. If you want to eat as you work a fork lift then feel free, but remember when you have that accident... Who yah gonna call ( not ghost busters that's a fact )...We are not whinging , plus many sectors of emergency service armed forces and all jobs having to take cuts. So everyone suffering. We are just voicing our concerns...and yes I do enjoy my job and earn a lot less than some people who answer a phone for the nhs.[/p][/quote]Yes but how much you being paid to do this? We want to know how big the whinge is so we can understand. stu2010
  • Score: -11

12:32pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Ellie2311 says...

The starting wage for a paramedic is £21,000. I have a friend working in tesco who works on the tills who comes home with the same amount I make each month but has none of the stress and none of the abuse!!
Now are we still whinging??
The starting wage for a paramedic is £21,000. I have a friend working in tesco who works on the tills who comes home with the same amount I make each month but has none of the stress and none of the abuse!! Now are we still whinging?? Ellie2311
  • Score: 21

1:37pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Gemz6902 says...

blueworcs wrote:
I haven't had a pay rise for 6 years, some days I don't get time for a break and have to gulp a sarnie down while driving a Fork Lift and I DON'T get paid If I'm off sick for the first 3 days(then SSP kicks In).....STOP WHINGEING AND GET ON WITH IT....IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE......unless your In Politics............

..........
What an idiot......shows why they are working on an FLT and not the front line!
[quote][p][bold]blueworcs[/bold] wrote: I haven't had a pay rise for 6 years, some days I don't get time for a break and have to gulp a sarnie down while driving a Fork Lift and I DON'T get paid If I'm off sick for the first 3 days(then SSP kicks In).....STOP WHINGEING AND GET ON WITH IT....IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE......unless your In Politics............ ..........[/p][/quote]What an idiot......shows why they are working on an FLT and not the front line! Gemz6902
  • Score: 21

2:04pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Paramedic1 says...

EMERGENCY CARE ASSISTANT:

Emergency Care Assistants are often (wrongly in my opinion) referred to as ambulance drivers. Now the ambulance driver must hold a C1 LGV licence and drive a large overweight vehicle designed as a van and converted in to an ambulance post-production. They must drive this vehicle under emergency conditions, driving with blue lights and sirens which is incredibly intensive (not easy as the public might think!) and at the same time carrying the burden of the risk to their life, their crew mate's life and other road users. They also have a heavily increased liability and legal accountability when claiming exemptions. Some of these staff drive under these conditions for a full 12 hour shift.

On arrival at scene they can be confronted with the same as any other member of the front line crew. An active child birth, a deceased person, a completed suicide, a dying or deceased baby, a full resuscitation effort, an elderly person who has been persistently neglected and living in squalor for month or years. They must try to rationalise this, but we never forget these incidents. They are simply locked away in the back of our minds. We don't know when that box could become too full and burst open. When it does, we have lost 25% of our sick pay. This isn't a tickly cough we are talking about.

They are paid from NHS Band 3: £16271 / £8.34 per hour

EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN:

All the same responsibilities as the Emergency Care Assistant plus...

These staff are often the lead clinician on the front line ambulance. They carry a comprehensive range of drugs and are expected to administer these based on their own clinical knowledge and judgment. These drugs when wrongly administered could kill the patient. The EMT must have a vast level of knowledge of the human body, disease processes, medical conditions and drug actions and interactions in order to practice safely. They will make decisions on a range of complicated conditions when a patient asks whether they need to go to hospital or not.

They are paid from NHS Band 4: £18,838 / £9.66 per hour

REGISTERED PARAMEDIC

All the same responsibilities as Emergency Care Assistants and Emergency Medical Technicians plus...

They are legally required to be registered with the Health and Care Professions Council, at a hefty cost which has to be paid to be allowed to practice on an annual basis. In order to retain professional registration, a Paramedic must demonstrate personal continued professional development by completing and documenting a vast amount of reading and additional training courses. These are completed at their own expense and usually in their own time. Courses can cost a huge amount of money with no upper limit really.

If an error is made in clinical judgement, or simply if the abusive drunk person who just assaulted the Paramedic decides to complain about the Paramedic's "bad attitude" following the attack, the Paramedic could find themselves in front of the HCPC defending their registration at any time. This isn't a complaint as it protects the public and the profession, but it is a threat when a human error is made.

Paramedics must now be educated at university in order to be eligible to register as a Paramedic.

They are paid from NHS Band 5: £21,388 / £10.97 per hour.


Together we usually work as a team as a combination of the two above professionals. We have to see things you never should see. We have to breath in germs and bugs from chest infections, gastroenteritis caused diarrhoea and vomit, handle blood, urine, faeces and sweat, etc.

We must view and attempt to rationalise horrific sights such as death, suffering, sexual and physical abuse of adults and children alike.

This article isn't an argument about what we are paid for our role, it is about having to defend ourselves from proposals that will see us have 25% of our wages taken off us if heaven forbid we come down ill with a medical, traumatic or mental health illness, which we are significant predisposed to by every single one of our 10+ patients per shift!!

On top of that we are facing being told:

"You must take your break here, although you are miles from your base station. This time is your own 30 or 45 minutes (depending on work region) to get some food and something to drink and to escape your work environment because you are not being paid. Although you are not allowed to take food with you because this is against infection control policies, so buy food from wherever we put you on break. There's sure to be a fish and chip shop or maybe a newsagent which sells pasties and pies. Maybe a salad if you're lucky and health conscious. You can't go too far though because you're in an ambulance, just keep that in mind."

Hopefully, whilst we respect your plight in your profession as a fork lift truck operator, it isn't an "us and them" comparison. We believe we are being unfairly treated and wish to speak out to make the public aware. If you don't get breaks and you aren't receiving a pay rise for that long despite inflation, please get together with your colleagues and speak out!

If you don't, please don't expect others to respect your comment that we should, in effect, put up with it and shut up.

Or maybe we should? After all is said and done, I guess we are just "ambulance drivers".

Regards,

An NHS Paramedic
EMERGENCY CARE ASSISTANT: Emergency Care Assistants are often (wrongly in my opinion) referred to as ambulance drivers. Now the ambulance driver must hold a C1 LGV licence and drive a large overweight vehicle designed as a van and converted in to an ambulance post-production. They must drive this vehicle under emergency conditions, driving with blue lights and sirens which is incredibly intensive (not easy as the public might think!) and at the same time carrying the burden of the risk to their life, their crew mate's life and other road users. They also have a heavily increased liability and legal accountability when claiming exemptions. Some of these staff drive under these conditions for a full 12 hour shift. On arrival at scene they can be confronted with the same as any other member of the front line crew. An active child birth, a deceased person, a completed suicide, a dying or deceased baby, a full resuscitation effort, an elderly person who has been persistently neglected and living in squalor for month or years. They must try to rationalise this, but we never forget these incidents. They are simply locked away in the back of our minds. We don't know when that box could become too full and burst open. When it does, we have lost 25% of our sick pay. This isn't a tickly cough we are talking about. They are paid from NHS Band 3: £16271 / £8.34 per hour EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN: All the same responsibilities as the Emergency Care Assistant plus... These staff are often the lead clinician on the front line ambulance. They carry a comprehensive range of drugs and are expected to administer these based on their own clinical knowledge and judgment. These drugs when wrongly administered could kill the patient. The EMT must have a vast level of knowledge of the human body, disease processes, medical conditions and drug actions and interactions in order to practice safely. They will make decisions on a range of complicated conditions when a patient asks whether they need to go to hospital or not. They are paid from NHS Band 4: £18,838 / £9.66 per hour REGISTERED PARAMEDIC All the same responsibilities as Emergency Care Assistants and Emergency Medical Technicians plus... They are legally required to be registered with the Health and Care Professions Council, at a hefty cost which has to be paid to be allowed to practice on an annual basis. In order to retain professional registration, a Paramedic must demonstrate personal continued professional development by completing and documenting a vast amount of reading and additional training courses. These are completed at their own expense and usually in their own time. Courses can cost a huge amount of money with no upper limit really. If an error is made in clinical judgement, or simply if the abusive drunk person who just assaulted the Paramedic decides to complain about the Paramedic's "bad attitude" following the attack, the Paramedic could find themselves in front of the HCPC defending their registration at any time. This isn't a complaint as it protects the public and the profession, but it is a threat when a human error is made. Paramedics must now be educated at university in order to be eligible to register as a Paramedic. They are paid from NHS Band 5: £21,388 / £10.97 per hour. Together we usually work as a team as a combination of the two above professionals. We have to see things you never should see. We have to breath in germs and bugs from chest infections, gastroenteritis caused diarrhoea and vomit, handle blood, urine, faeces and sweat, etc. We must view and attempt to rationalise horrific sights such as death, suffering, sexual and physical abuse of adults and children alike. This article isn't an argument about what we are paid for our role, it is about having to defend ourselves from proposals that will see us have 25% of our wages taken off us if heaven forbid we come down ill with a medical, traumatic or mental health illness, which we are significant predisposed to by every single one of our 10+ patients per shift!! On top of that we are facing being told: "You must take your break here, although you are miles from your base station. This time is your own 30 or 45 minutes (depending on work region) to get some food and something to drink and to escape your work environment because you are not being paid. Although you are not allowed to take food with you because this is against infection control policies, so buy food from wherever we put you on break. There's sure to be a fish and chip shop or maybe a newsagent which sells pasties and pies. Maybe a salad if you're lucky and health conscious. You can't go too far though because you're in an ambulance, just keep that in mind." Hopefully, whilst we respect your plight in your profession as a fork lift truck operator, it isn't an "us and them" comparison. We believe we are being unfairly treated and wish to speak out to make the public aware. If you don't get breaks and you aren't receiving a pay rise for that long despite inflation, please get together with your colleagues and speak out! If you don't, please don't expect others to respect your comment that we should, in effect, put up with it and shut up. Or maybe we should? After all is said and done, I guess we are just "ambulance drivers". Regards, An NHS Paramedic Paramedic1
  • Score: 46

3:26pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Budweis-her says...

It doesn't matter what the salary is - 25% is a lot to lose whatever your salary. This isn't just about losing pay if you're off sick (which is probably due to something infectious caught off a patient, stress from a nasty job or a musculo-skeletal injury caused by a manual handling incident), it's about WMAS changing terms and conditions with no consultation with staff or trade unions to suit themselves at the staff's detriment. Morale is already rock bottom, I honestly don't think it can get any worse. WMAS are just beating the staff when they're already down.
It doesn't matter what the salary is - 25% is a lot to lose whatever your salary. This isn't just about losing pay if you're off sick (which is probably due to something infectious caught off a patient, stress from a nasty job or a musculo-skeletal injury caused by a manual handling incident), it's about WMAS changing terms and conditions with no consultation with staff or trade unions to suit themselves at the staff's detriment. Morale is already rock bottom, I honestly don't think it can get any worse. WMAS are just beating the staff when they're already down. Budweis-her
  • Score: 16

3:41pm Fri 13 Dec 13

towyboy says...

For information:
Band 3 from £16271 to £19268 (same as a healthcare assistant)
Band 4 from £18838 to £22016 (same as a senior healthcare assistant)
Band 5 from £21388 to £27901 (same as a Staff Nurse)
All the above plus 30% to 60% extra for working unsocial hours (7pm to 6am every weekday and all day Saturday = 30%, Sundays at 60%)
For information: Band 3 from £16271 to £19268 (same as a healthcare assistant) Band 4 from £18838 to £22016 (same as a senior healthcare assistant) Band 5 from £21388 to £27901 (same as a Staff Nurse) All the above plus 30% to 60% extra for working unsocial hours (7pm to 6am every weekday and all day Saturday = 30%, Sundays at 60%) towyboy
  • Score: -14

4:17pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Budweis-her says...

I don't know where Towyboy has got his info from but we do not get 30-60%. Ambulance staff only get paid 25% unsocial hours bonus, despite working considerably more than that.

Unsocial hours is calculated from 7pm-7am and all day Saturday & Sunday, until 7am Monday morning. We get 25% maximum. In one rotation of shifts we can easily work 75% of our time during unsocial hours buy only get paid 25%.
I don't know where Towyboy has got his info from but we do not get 30-60%. Ambulance staff only get paid 25% unsocial hours bonus, despite working considerably more than that. Unsocial hours is calculated from 7pm-7am and all day Saturday & Sunday, until 7am Monday morning. We get 25% maximum. In one rotation of shifts we can easily work 75% of our time during unsocial hours buy only get paid 25%. Budweis-her
  • Score: 16

4:25pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Paramedic1 says...

Hahahahah I wish we got 30% for Saturdays and 60% for Sundays!
Hahahahah I wish we got 30% for Saturdays and 60% for Sundays! Paramedic1
  • Score: 18

4:38pm Fri 13 Dec 13

SayWhatNow says...

We get 25% and work considerably more unsocial hours. The job comparisons are correct for banding and all 3 jobs you use are demanding and another tough profession within the NHS.

None are autonomous like ourselves and mainly work in ward environment which again is tough but very different to environments worked by ourselves.

I'm not on here to attack other professions as we all work demanding jobs with different stresses. We all know ambulance personnel would get paid more if we worked to other NHS bandings for our skills and unsocial hours so to take away our 25% is just another kick in the butt. Would you want your relative with a auto immune condition being sneezed and coughed on by ambulance staff because they couldn't go sick. Yes its a luxury to some but some jobs are more demanding than others.

But here is my key point, people are happy to knock our pay. But I can guarantee that moment you cant breathe or that little peanut is causing your throat to swell. I would bet my 25% you would be happy to see our healthy and well fed face at your door....
We get 25% and work considerably more unsocial hours. The job comparisons are correct for banding and all 3 jobs you use are demanding and another tough profession within the NHS. None are autonomous like ourselves and mainly work in ward environment which again is tough but very different to environments worked by ourselves. I'm not on here to attack other professions as we all work demanding jobs with different stresses. We all know ambulance personnel would get paid more if we worked to other NHS bandings for our skills and unsocial hours so to take away our 25% is just another kick in the butt. Would you want your relative with a auto immune condition being sneezed and coughed on by ambulance staff because they couldn't go sick. Yes its a luxury to some but some jobs are more demanding than others. But here is my key point, people are happy to knock our pay. But I can guarantee that moment you cant breathe or that little peanut is causing your throat to swell. I would bet my 25% you would be happy to see our healthy and well fed face at your door.... SayWhatNow
  • Score: 21

5:00pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Paramedic1 says...

SayWhatNow makes an interesting point about the Agenda For Change pay scale we are in. You would not find a Nursing based profession who intubate, thrombolise, practice in the community and to a certain extent autonomously for band 5. Hence the point of having 25% removed is just the tip of a very tall iceberg!

Also throw in little changes to the initially AGREED policies when agenda for change was adopted.... One of which is the ability to go undisturbed for our unpaid meal breaks so that we can do what we wish to do in OUR time. Another to note is overtime now timed to the minute we book back on station as opposed to rounded to 15 minutes. The whole point of that was that we don't finish work when we book on station. We have to remove prfs, handover the vehicle to the next crew, book in controlled drugs, etc.

If these little things keep getting through without challenge and appropriate consultation of the staff and unions, things are going to spiral!
SayWhatNow makes an interesting point about the Agenda For Change pay scale we are in. You would not find a Nursing based profession who intubate, thrombolise, practice in the community and to a certain extent autonomously for band 5. Hence the point of having 25% removed is just the tip of a very tall iceberg! Also throw in little changes to the initially AGREED policies when agenda for change was adopted.... One of which is the ability to go undisturbed for our unpaid meal breaks so that we can do what we wish to do in OUR time. Another to note is overtime now timed to the minute we book back on station as opposed to rounded to 15 minutes. The whole point of that was that we don't finish work when we book on station. We have to remove prfs, handover the vehicle to the next crew, book in controlled drugs, etc. If these little things keep getting through without challenge and appropriate consultation of the staff and unions, things are going to spiral! Paramedic1
  • Score: 9

5:54pm Fri 13 Dec 13

n1c7yh says...

blueworcs wrote:
I haven't had a pay rise for 6 years, some days I don't get time for a break and have to gulp a sarnie down while driving a Fork Lift and I DON'T get paid If I'm off sick for the first 3 days(then SSP kicks In).....STOP WHINGEING AND GET ON WITH IT....IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE......unless your In Politics............

..........
You drive a fork lift truck, the day your out saving lives twelve hours a day or nigh in all weathers and possibly missing out on a meal break and possibly getting injured or ill in the process then I would say you would have a right to make the comment you did. Maybe you will understand the day you might need an ambulance, but hopefully not.
[quote][p][bold]blueworcs[/bold] wrote: I haven't had a pay rise for 6 years, some days I don't get time for a break and have to gulp a sarnie down while driving a Fork Lift and I DON'T get paid If I'm off sick for the first 3 days(then SSP kicks In).....STOP WHINGEING AND GET ON WITH IT....IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERYONE......unless your In Politics............ ..........[/p][/quote]You drive a fork lift truck, the day your out saving lives twelve hours a day or nigh in all weathers and possibly missing out on a meal break and possibly getting injured or ill in the process then I would say you would have a right to make the comment you did. Maybe you will understand the day you might need an ambulance, but hopefully not. n1c7yh
  • Score: 15

5:38pm Wed 18 Dec 13

towyboy says...

My apologies - I hadn't read Annex E of the most recent NHS terms and conditions of service handbook. For clarity - the unsocial hours I quoted were for NHS staff excluding ambulance staff. Ambulance staff get 25% "paid as a fixed percentage addition to basic pay in each pay period. The enhancement will be pensionable and count for sick pay, but will not be consolidated for purposes of overtime or any other payment".
My apologies - I hadn't read Annex E of the most recent NHS terms and conditions of service handbook. For clarity - the unsocial hours I quoted were for NHS staff excluding ambulance staff. Ambulance staff get 25% "paid as a fixed percentage addition to basic pay in each pay period. The enhancement will be pensionable and count for sick pay, but will not be consolidated for purposes of overtime or any other payment". towyboy
  • Score: 1

6:43pm Tue 4 Feb 14

the trojan says...

right what the Ambulance staff Don't tell you..
yes they can have a break, some would rather eat fish and chips than answer a 999 call ( they can do this and some do).
sick pay they are on about loosing... its the 25% they get for shift allowance they do NOT loose any wages what so ever...so they want to go sick on full pay AND still get the 25% shift allowance while they stop at home..no wonder the NHS is skint . So work it out 1 paramedic goes sick 12 hours pay plus 25% they have to cover that paramedic on overtime 1 paramedic on over time paid time and a half 18 hours pay plus 25% plus travel time and mileage big cost ....
right what the Ambulance staff Don't tell you.. yes they can have a break, some would rather eat fish and chips than answer a 999 call ( they can do this and some do). sick pay they are on about loosing... its the 25% they get for shift allowance they do NOT loose any wages what so ever...so they want to go sick on full pay AND still get the 25% shift allowance while they stop at home..no wonder the NHS is skint . So work it out 1 paramedic goes sick 12 hours pay plus 25% they have to cover that paramedic on overtime 1 paramedic on over time paid time and a half 18 hours pay plus 25% plus travel time and mileage big cost .... the trojan
  • Score: -4
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