Second Worcestershire MP backs HS2 fast train project

House of Commons: second HS2 reading due tonight

House of Commons: second HS2 reading due tonight

First published in News Evesham Journal: Tom Edwards by , Political Reporter

A WORCESTERSHIRE MP has stuck her neck out in support of the HS2 superfast rail project - saying the county will benefit from it.

Harriett Baldwin, who represents West Worcestershire, says the £50 billion scheme deserves the backing of the commons.

A second reading is taking place in parliament tonight which is widely expected to be passed despite up to 40 Tory MPs due to either rebel or be absent.

Mrs Baldwin said: "It stands to reason that a faster rail link from Birmingham International to London and the continent beyond will be good for Worcestershire businesses.

"The next phase will whizz us to Manchester as well.

“Now detailed analysis of the HS2 project shows by how much the Worcestershire economy could benefit.

"I will still be campaigning for a faster, more frequent and more reliable Cotswold line service, a Worcestershire parkway station, dualling of the Carrington bridge to Powick roundabout and flood resilience for the main roads through Upton.

"With the Ketch roundabout work starting this week and dualling to junction seven of the M5, we have shown we have a team of Worcestershire MPs, councillors and a local enterprise partnership who are all committed to investing in local infrastructure."

It follows a report from KPMG last year, which revealed Worcestershire's economy is set to benefit from up to £375 million of new investment once the link reaches the Midlands in 2026.

Worcester MP Robin Walker is also a supporter of the project.

While some MPs are likely to defy the three major parties' whips to either vote against the bill or ally themselves with rebel motions from the anti-HS2 Tory MPs Cheryl Gillan and Michael Fabricant, the scheme's backers are confident of a resounding endorsement tonight.

Earlier this month Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin admitted that legislation needed to build the high-speed rail project would not become law before the next general election in 2015.

The Government says once complete it will reduce journey times from Birmingham to the capital to just 40 minutes.

But the Labour Party has refused to back it, saying it cannot sign a "blank cheque" for the project due to concerns over the estimated costs.

The Government has put £14 billion aside to avoid getting into a financial mess if the bill spirals, but future delays could see it go further

Comments (25)

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4:33pm Mon 28 Apr 14

i-cycle says...

Have Labour changed their mind (again), or is this just sloppy reporting?

I thought Labour signed up to HS2 after the party conference!

Can I assume UKIP are against it, as it will improve links to Europe?
Have Labour changed their mind (again), or is this just sloppy reporting? I thought Labour signed up to HS2 after the party conference! Can I assume UKIP are against it, as it will improve links to Europe? i-cycle
  • Score: -4

6:20pm Mon 28 Apr 14

imustbeoldiwearacap says...

And where is the money going to come from to dual Carrington Bridge, improve the Cotswold Line after they have spent all on the vanity project that is HS2. Better to forget HS2 and spend the money wisely on improving the rail infrastructure we already have - especially the Cotswold Line
And where is the money going to come from to dual Carrington Bridge, improve the Cotswold Line after they have spent all on the vanity project that is HS2. Better to forget HS2 and spend the money wisely on improving the rail infrastructure we already have - especially the Cotswold Line imustbeoldiwearacap
  • Score: 16

7:06pm Mon 28 Apr 14

Hwicce says...

Just shows how out of touch our MPs are.

HS2 will not make one jot of difference to Worcestershire. If anything it will make us more of a backwater as it whizzes up the east of the country. It only gets to Birmingham as a spur making even them an afterthought.

Better for us if they upgrade the Cotswold line to the levels the Victorians had.
Just shows how out of touch our MPs are. HS2 will not make one jot of difference to Worcestershire. If anything it will make us more of a backwater as it whizzes up the east of the country. It only gets to Birmingham as a spur making even them an afterthought. Better for us if they upgrade the Cotswold line to the levels the Victorians had. Hwicce
  • Score: 17

7:18pm Mon 28 Apr 14

i-cycle says...

Hwicce wrote:
Just shows how out of touch our MPs are.

HS2 will not make one jot of difference to Worcestershire. If anything it will make us more of a backwater as it whizzes up the east of the country. It only gets to Birmingham as a spur making even them an afterthought.

Better for us if they upgrade the Cotswold line to the levels the Victorians had.
I'm with HWICCE. Throw in the new station at Norton and it sounds like a better option.
[quote][p][bold]Hwicce[/bold] wrote: Just shows how out of touch our MPs are. HS2 will not make one jot of difference to Worcestershire. If anything it will make us more of a backwater as it whizzes up the east of the country. It only gets to Birmingham as a spur making even them an afterthought. Better for us if they upgrade the Cotswold line to the levels the Victorians had.[/p][/quote]I'm with HWICCE. Throw in the new station at Norton and it sounds like a better option. i-cycle
  • Score: 10

11:10pm Mon 28 Apr 14

Jabbadad says...

What else do we expect from Harriett, Robin and Peter all 3 CONservative Puppets. Harriett of course has smarmed her way to a NICE LITTLE JOB thank you. And seems to speak with such great authority on issues which will seriously affect we people in Worcestershire.
I would be more at ease if those who support this hugely expensive HS2 line wirh rolling Stock bought from Europe, when we have railway manufacturers in this country desperately looking for contracts, that when this mad idea becomes a national financial problem, that they who voted for this will step forward and be counted. Since we as taxpayers will have no choice whatsoever when we pick up the bill, will we..
And Labour did not back out of HS2 but put a CAP on the spending. Quite a sensible Idea me thinks.
What else do we expect from Harriett, Robin and Peter all 3 CONservative Puppets. Harriett of course has smarmed her way to a NICE LITTLE JOB thank you. And seems to speak with such great authority on issues which will seriously affect we people in Worcestershire. I would be more at ease if those who support this hugely expensive HS2 line wirh rolling Stock bought from Europe, when we have railway manufacturers in this country desperately looking for contracts, that when this mad idea becomes a national financial problem, that they who voted for this will step forward and be counted. Since we as taxpayers will have no choice whatsoever when we pick up the bill, will we.. And Labour did not back out of HS2 but put a CAP on the spending. Quite a sensible Idea me thinks. Jabbadad
  • Score: 2

12:19am Tue 29 Apr 14

Hugh Wattmate says...

They have to obey the masters. Just like on the whole Bedroom Tax and not accepting funds fiasco.
They have to obey the masters. Just like on the whole Bedroom Tax and not accepting funds fiasco. Hugh Wattmate
  • Score: 3

9:09am Tue 29 Apr 14

sugarlump says...

Very disappointing Hariett. Another sledgehammer for our countryside - driven by people who just want to be in power next time.
Very disappointing Hariett. Another sledgehammer for our countryside - driven by people who just want to be in power next time. sugarlump
  • Score: 5

10:19am Tue 29 Apr 14

MJI says...

I am pro High Speed Rail. It will cut down on some motorway traffic and also internal flights.
.
There is also the job aspect.
.
The existing lines are already over capacity so HS2 will take traffic off the WCML and later on the ECML
.
The UK used to be near or at the top in world high speed rail, now I think we are out of the top 10. AFAIR we were number 2 in the early 80s.
.
Just because not all railway engineers laid their lines out for high speed (unlike Brunel and the GWML), we do need to do this.
.
And it will have a posiitve effect for people around here, just think of when you drive to London that some of that traffic will end up on HS2.
I am pro High Speed Rail. It will cut down on some motorway traffic and also internal flights. . There is also the job aspect. . The existing lines are already over capacity so HS2 will take traffic off the WCML and later on the ECML . The UK used to be near or at the top in world high speed rail, now I think we are out of the top 10. AFAIR we were number 2 in the early 80s. . Just because not all railway engineers laid their lines out for high speed (unlike Brunel and the GWML), we do need to do this. . And it will have a posiitve effect for people around here, just think of when you drive to London that some of that traffic will end up on HS2. MJI
  • Score: -11

1:12pm Tue 29 Apr 14

psychoflump says...

HS2 is nothing but a vanity project. The money would be better spent on upgrades across the network and improvements to the phone network. If rural and semi-rural based business had better connectivity there would be less need to physically travelling to clients, etc.
HS2 is nothing but a vanity project. The money would be better spent on upgrades across the network and improvements to the phone network. If rural and semi-rural based business had better connectivity there would be less need to physically travelling to clients, etc. psychoflump
  • Score: 10

1:52pm Tue 29 Apr 14

Jabbadad says...

The main need on our main line railways is that while the Business people lounge comfortably in First Class, (and everytime I have been by rail there have been lot's of empty seats in First Class), yet the very next carriages for we mortals are crammed to the rafters. It's a good job that the baggage locker / shelves aren't bigger or we would be shoved up on there as well. So perhaps one or two more carriages, per train and less running not even half full in first class, would together with 21st centuery signalling (which would have to be adopted with HS2), could address this travel issue for a few £millions NOT MANY UNCONTROLLED £BILLIONS.
And with modern Carriages and Engines built in England.
But as long as the Dynamic Trio, of Baldwin, Walker, and Luff enter into a typical non patriotic vote that part would be unlikely.
To enter into this open door financial money pit of a scheme to save just a FEW MINUTES cannot be reasonably accepted, particularly by those who will be paying for many a year, while Friends Of Dave will do very nicely.
The main need on our main line railways is that while the Business people lounge comfortably in First Class, (and everytime I have been by rail there have been lot's of empty seats in First Class), yet the very next carriages for we mortals are crammed to the rafters. It's a good job that the baggage locker / shelves aren't bigger or we would be shoved up on there as well. So perhaps one or two more carriages, per train and less running not even half full in first class, would together with 21st centuery signalling (which would have to be adopted with HS2), could address this travel issue for a few £millions NOT MANY UNCONTROLLED £BILLIONS. And with modern Carriages and Engines built in England. But as long as the Dynamic Trio, of Baldwin, Walker, and Luff enter into a typical non patriotic vote that part would be unlikely. To enter into this open door financial money pit of a scheme to save just a FEW MINUTES cannot be reasonably accepted, particularly by those who will be paying for many a year, while Friends Of Dave will do very nicely. Jabbadad
  • Score: 1

2:33pm Tue 29 Apr 14

MJI says...

Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites?
.
HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph.
.
You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope.
.
The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway.
.
Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road.
Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites? . HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph. . You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope. . The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway. . Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road. MJI
  • Score: -6

2:45pm Tue 29 Apr 14

MJI says...

Another thing.
.
Due to HS2 and IEP Hitachi are moving their global head quarters to the UK.
.
Mismanagement and foreign purchasers have killed most of our rail industry. Companies such as Alsthom closing down the GEC side. And EE winding up bought by GEC because of poor management. Blame MAN for killing off our Diesel industry, the last British Diesels are now made in France under the MAN name. The British division now just supplying spares for Paxman, Mirlees, Ruston (the MAN engine is a Ruston RK280), and English Electric.
.
So anything to get our railway industry back is good.
Another thing. . Due to HS2 and IEP Hitachi are moving their global head quarters to the UK. . Mismanagement and foreign purchasers have killed most of our rail industry. Companies such as Alsthom closing down the GEC side. And EE winding up bought by GEC because of poor management. Blame MAN for killing off our Diesel industry, the last British Diesels are now made in France under the MAN name. The British division now just supplying spares for Paxman, Mirlees, Ruston (the MAN engine is a Ruston RK280), and English Electric. . So anything to get our railway industry back is good. MJI
  • Score: -2

3:08pm Tue 29 Apr 14

localman69 says...

MJI wrote:
I am pro High Speed Rail. It will cut down on some motorway traffic and also internal flights.
.
There is also the job aspect.
.
The existing lines are already over capacity so HS2 will take traffic off the WCML and later on the ECML
.
The UK used to be near or at the top in world high speed rail, now I think we are out of the top 10. AFAIR we were number 2 in the early 80s.
.
Just because not all railway engineers laid their lines out for high speed (unlike Brunel and the GWML), we do need to do this.
.
And it will have a posiitve effect for people around here, just think of when you drive to London that some of that traffic will end up on HS2.
Absolute rubbish. HS2 is a white elephant. Have you looked at a map recently? We are nowhere near this line...so much for reducing traffic due to HS2. Neither does the business case add up. The whole project is flawed.
[quote][p][bold]MJI[/bold] wrote: I am pro High Speed Rail. It will cut down on some motorway traffic and also internal flights. . There is also the job aspect. . The existing lines are already over capacity so HS2 will take traffic off the WCML and later on the ECML . The UK used to be near or at the top in world high speed rail, now I think we are out of the top 10. AFAIR we were number 2 in the early 80s. . Just because not all railway engineers laid their lines out for high speed (unlike Brunel and the GWML), we do need to do this. . And it will have a posiitve effect for people around here, just think of when you drive to London that some of that traffic will end up on HS2.[/p][/quote]Absolute rubbish. HS2 is a white elephant. Have you looked at a map recently? We are nowhere near this line...so much for reducing traffic due to HS2. Neither does the business case add up. The whole project is flawed. localman69
  • Score: 7

3:12pm Tue 29 Apr 14

localman69 says...

MJI wrote:
Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites?
.
HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph.
.
You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope.
.
The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway.
.
Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road.
Believe the hype and BS if you must.

A 2005 study examined rail projects undertaken worldwide between 1969-1998. In more than 90% of all the cases, the number of passengers projected to use the system was overestimated. On average planners overestimated how many people would use the new rail projects by 106%, and the average cost overrun was 45%. As more evidence accumulated, the experts did not become reliant on it. HS2 project that rail passenger figures will increase by over 280%. This delusion is a complete failure of forecasting and overly optimistic forecasts are designed to force their outcome of the project.The All Party Parliamentary Group on HS2 (pro HS2 lobby group in Parliament) may claim that HS2 is needed because of capacity constraints but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

The Department for Transport has repeatedly refused official data on peak loading and a peak time survey of Intercity trains from Euston to the Midlands and North along the West Coast Main Line (‘WCML’).
[quote][p][bold]MJI[/bold] wrote: Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites? . HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph. . You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope. . The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway. . Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road.[/p][/quote]Believe the hype and BS if you must. A 2005 study examined rail projects undertaken worldwide between 1969-1998. In more than 90% of all the cases, the number of passengers projected to use the system was overestimated. On average planners overestimated how many people would use the new rail projects by 106%, and the average cost overrun was 45%. As more evidence accumulated, the experts did not become reliant on it. HS2 project that rail passenger figures will increase by over 280%. This delusion is a complete failure of forecasting and overly optimistic forecasts are designed to force their outcome of the project.The All Party Parliamentary Group on HS2 (pro HS2 lobby group in Parliament) may claim that HS2 is needed because of capacity constraints but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. The Department for Transport has repeatedly refused official data on peak loading and a peak time survey of Intercity trains from Euston to the Midlands and North along the West Coast Main Line (‘WCML’). localman69
  • Score: 5

3:42pm Tue 29 Apr 14

Hwicce says...

MJI wrote:
Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites?
.
HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph.
.
You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope.
.
The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway.
.
Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road.
If we need more railways then why aren't we dualing the Cotswold line?

That is the line I'm likely to use not one that takes an hour to get to.

£50,000,000,000 will buy a lot of extra rolling stock on the existing railways. Double the length of the existing trains, its a lot cheaper and easier. We used to have 15 coach trains in the 30's now we just get 7 coach ones.
[quote][p][bold]MJI[/bold] wrote: Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites? . HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph. . You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope. . The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway. . Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road.[/p][/quote]If we need more railways then why aren't we dualing the Cotswold line? That is the line I'm likely to use not one that takes an hour to get to. £50,000,000,000 will buy a lot of extra rolling stock on the existing railways. Double the length of the existing trains, its a lot cheaper and easier. We used to have 15 coach trains in the 30's now we just get 7 coach ones. Hwicce
  • Score: 5

4:04pm Tue 29 Apr 14

Jabbadad says...

Come on we have a good head of steam on now. Let's hope that more join the ones with sense and factual information, and leave those who have the most to financially gain in the Sidings.
Come on we have a good head of steam on now. Let's hope that more join the ones with sense and factual information, and leave those who have the most to financially gain in the Sidings. Jabbadad
  • Score: -1

4:39pm Tue 29 Apr 14

MJI says...

localman69 wrote:
MJI wrote:
I am pro High Speed Rail. It will cut down on some motorway traffic and also internal flights.
.
There is also the job aspect.
.
The existing lines are already over capacity so HS2 will take traffic off the WCML and later on the ECML
.
The UK used to be near or at the top in world high speed rail, now I think we are out of the top 10. AFAIR we were number 2 in the early 80s.
.
Just because not all railway engineers laid their lines out for high speed (unlike Brunel and the GWML), we do need to do this.
.
And it will have a posiitve effect for people around here, just think of when you drive to London that some of that traffic will end up on HS2.
Absolute rubbish. HS2 is a white elephant. Have you looked at a map recently? We are nowhere near this line...so much for reducing traffic due to HS2. Neither does the business case add up. The whole project is flawed.
I have more maps than you!
.
So what if we are nowhere near HS2?
.
It is good for the nation!
[quote][p][bold]localman69[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MJI[/bold] wrote: I am pro High Speed Rail. It will cut down on some motorway traffic and also internal flights. . There is also the job aspect. . The existing lines are already over capacity so HS2 will take traffic off the WCML and later on the ECML . The UK used to be near or at the top in world high speed rail, now I think we are out of the top 10. AFAIR we were number 2 in the early 80s. . Just because not all railway engineers laid their lines out for high speed (unlike Brunel and the GWML), we do need to do this. . And it will have a posiitve effect for people around here, just think of when you drive to London that some of that traffic will end up on HS2.[/p][/quote]Absolute rubbish. HS2 is a white elephant. Have you looked at a map recently? We are nowhere near this line...so much for reducing traffic due to HS2. Neither does the business case add up. The whole project is flawed.[/p][/quote]I have more maps than you! . So what if we are nowhere near HS2? . It is good for the nation! MJI
  • Score: -3

4:51pm Tue 29 Apr 14

MJI says...

Hwicce wrote:
MJI wrote:
Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites?
.
HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph.
.
You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope.
.
The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway.
.
Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road.
If we need more railways then why aren't we dualing the Cotswold line?

That is the line I'm likely to use not one that takes an hour to get to.

£50,000,000,000 will buy a lot of extra rolling stock on the existing railways. Double the length of the existing trains, its a lot cheaper and easier. We used to have 15 coach trains in the 30's now we just get 7 coach ones.
Because that line only does Worcester and Hereford, two smallish cities, not two of the biggest cities in the country.
.
Doubling length of train, platforms are a limited length, in the UK 16 coach trains are not practical.
.
The 1930s coaches are also normally around 57' long compared to the 75 ' long coach I am sure you mean, also there used to be a lot more brake coaches, acceleration reasons are why they stop at 7, 8 or 9 are possible with HST power cars but timings suffer on stop start services.

Anyway the 7 coach HST would carry a similar amount of passengers to your 1930s trains. The ECML sets would carry more.
[quote][p][bold]Hwicce[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MJI[/bold] wrote: Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites? . HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph. . You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope. . The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway. . Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road.[/p][/quote]If we need more railways then why aren't we dualing the Cotswold line? That is the line I'm likely to use not one that takes an hour to get to. £50,000,000,000 will buy a lot of extra rolling stock on the existing railways. Double the length of the existing trains, its a lot cheaper and easier. We used to have 15 coach trains in the 30's now we just get 7 coach ones.[/p][/quote]Because that line only does Worcester and Hereford, two smallish cities, not two of the biggest cities in the country. . Doubling length of train, platforms are a limited length, in the UK 16 coach trains are not practical. . The 1930s coaches are also normally around 57' long compared to the 75 ' long coach I am sure you mean, also there used to be a lot more brake coaches, acceleration reasons are why they stop at 7, 8 or 9 are possible with HST power cars but timings suffer on stop start services. Anyway the 7 coach HST would carry a similar amount of passengers to your 1930s trains. The ECML sets would carry more. MJI
  • Score: 0

6:21pm Tue 29 Apr 14

Jabbadad says...

I recall that we have discussed the additional lengths of coach's and as said when we catch a Propper Train ( as they are called by the staff) the 125's when you are approaching a smaller station there is an annoucement on the train tannoy saking those who wish to alight at the smallet platformed stations to move along to the coach's which will accomadate passengers alighting. JOB DONE.
As to the engines braking etc I am sure that with the modern Deisel engines the aceleration and de-aceleration is far superior these days and brakes can always be upgraded without throwing the rolling stock away. So really MJl(even with your knowledge from way back) I think that all your questions can be answered, in favour of not spending / wasting Billions of pounds on a political whim, remember BEST VALUE.
I recall that we have discussed the additional lengths of coach's and as said when we catch a Propper Train ( as they are called by the staff) the 125's when you are approaching a smaller station there is an annoucement on the train tannoy saking those who wish to alight at the smallet platformed stations to move along to the coach's which will accomadate passengers alighting. JOB DONE. As to the engines braking etc I am sure that with the modern Deisel engines the aceleration and de-aceleration is far superior these days and brakes can always be upgraded without throwing the rolling stock away. So really MJl(even with your knowledge from way back) I think that all your questions can be answered, in favour of not spending / wasting Billions of pounds on a political whim, remember BEST VALUE. Jabbadad
  • Score: 4

9:12pm Tue 29 Apr 14

Shropshirelad says...

The expenditure of this colossal sum on a massive project of arguable need is little short of criminal when one considers all of the other major issues that this country urgently needs to rectify. Just one, if I was a resident of the Somerset levels and had been flooded out for weeks on end caused by government indifference, lethargy and disdain, then every time I heard or read something about HS2 I would be almost unable to contain myself. Come on those people from the south west and Somerset, let's see some demonstrations against HS2, team up with those who will be directly affected by this line carving up the land on it's route, the people whose properties will be devalued and whose lives will be blighted and those who care about our environment when more and more green land will be lost to development. The cost of HS2 could be used to implement anti-flooding measures in most of the vulnerable areas of the UK, then of course we have the need for additional/alternati
ve rail routes from all parts of the UK to the west country, have we forgotten Dawlish already. This government and those other MPs will only take notice when their seats in Parliament are threatened, warn all MPs who support and vote for HS2 that they will be targeted to lose the votes of all those who oppose this terrible and useless imposition on our country.
The expenditure of this colossal sum on a massive project of arguable need is little short of criminal when one considers all of the other major issues that this country urgently needs to rectify. Just one, if I was a resident of the Somerset levels and had been flooded out for weeks on end caused by government indifference, lethargy and disdain, then every time I heard or read something about HS2 I would be almost unable to contain myself. Come on those people from the south west and Somerset, let's see some demonstrations against HS2, team up with those who will be directly affected by this line carving up the land on it's route, the people whose properties will be devalued and whose lives will be blighted and those who care about our environment when more and more green land will be lost to development. The cost of HS2 could be used to implement anti-flooding measures in most of the vulnerable areas of the UK, then of course we have the need for additional/alternati ve rail routes from all parts of the UK to the west country, have we forgotten Dawlish already. This government and those other MPs will only take notice when their seats in Parliament are threatened, warn all MPs who support and vote for HS2 that they will be targeted to lose the votes of all those who oppose this terrible and useless imposition on our country. Shropshirelad
  • Score: 5

1:21pm Wed 30 Apr 14

Hwicce says...

MJI wrote:
Hwicce wrote:
MJI wrote:
Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites?
.
HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph.
.
You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope.
.
The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway.
.
Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road.
If we need more railways then why aren't we dualing the Cotswold line?

That is the line I'm likely to use not one that takes an hour to get to.

£50,000,000,000 will buy a lot of extra rolling stock on the existing railways. Double the length of the existing trains, its a lot cheaper and easier. We used to have 15 coach trains in the 30's now we just get 7 coach ones.
Because that line only does Worcester and Hereford, two smallish cities, not two of the biggest cities in the country.
.
Doubling length of train, platforms are a limited length, in the UK 16 coach trains are not practical.
.
The 1930s coaches are also normally around 57' long compared to the 75 ' long coach I am sure you mean, also there used to be a lot more brake coaches, acceleration reasons are why they stop at 7, 8 or 9 are possible with HST power cars but timings suffer on stop start services.

Anyway the 7 coach HST would carry a similar amount of passengers to your 1930s trains. The ECML sets would carry more.
I think you're missing the point here (deliberately?). You can build a 1000mph railway with unlimited capacity but if it doesn't start where I am or go where I want it is a waste of money.

I am in Worcester, I can get to London on the rickety system we have at the moment in 2hrs 15mins.

With HS2 it will be a 50min journey to New Street, 10 minutes walk to Curzon Street and 50mins to London, a total of 1hr 50mins. That's assuming that I don't have to wait and all the connections are instant(unlikely).

So for the expense of £50,000,000,0000 I will save just a maximum of 25mins but more likely nothing.

If the Cotswold line is dualled all the way (for a lot less than £50,000,000,0000) then I will probably be able to save the same amount of time, not have to change, not have to walk, and still have several billion pounds left in change.

It's an absolute no-brainer that it's of no use to Worcestershire.
[quote][p][bold]MJI[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hwicce[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MJI[/bold] wrote: Why is everyone such a bunch of luddites? . HS2 is exciting, proper high speed rail rather than 1970s 125mph. . You need to think longer term, one of the lines HS2 is supposed to take some load off is already at maximum utilisation. We do need more railways to cope. . The West Coast Main Line is full, we need more, so build more, better than yet another motorway. . Railways also take up a lot less land than a motorway, a double track main line about the same as a wide 2 lane road.[/p][/quote]If we need more railways then why aren't we dualing the Cotswold line? That is the line I'm likely to use not one that takes an hour to get to. £50,000,000,000 will buy a lot of extra rolling stock on the existing railways. Double the length of the existing trains, its a lot cheaper and easier. We used to have 15 coach trains in the 30's now we just get 7 coach ones.[/p][/quote]Because that line only does Worcester and Hereford, two smallish cities, not two of the biggest cities in the country. . Doubling length of train, platforms are a limited length, in the UK 16 coach trains are not practical. . The 1930s coaches are also normally around 57' long compared to the 75 ' long coach I am sure you mean, also there used to be a lot more brake coaches, acceleration reasons are why they stop at 7, 8 or 9 are possible with HST power cars but timings suffer on stop start services. Anyway the 7 coach HST would carry a similar amount of passengers to your 1930s trains. The ECML sets would carry more.[/p][/quote]I think you're missing the point here (deliberately?). You can build a 1000mph railway with unlimited capacity but if it doesn't start where I am or go where I want it is a waste of money. I am in Worcester, I can get to London on the rickety system we have at the moment in 2hrs 15mins. With HS2 it will be a 50min journey to New Street, 10 minutes walk to Curzon Street and 50mins to London, a total of 1hr 50mins. That's assuming that I don't have to wait and all the connections are instant(unlikely). So for the expense of £50,000,000,0000 I will save just a maximum of 25mins but more likely nothing. If the Cotswold line is dualled all the way (for a lot less than £50,000,000,0000) then I will probably be able to save the same amount of time, not have to change, not have to walk, and still have several billion pounds left in change. It's an absolute no-brainer that it's of no use to Worcestershire. Hwicce
  • Score: 8

5:23pm Wed 30 Apr 14

Jabbadad says...

At last people talking with common sense which listening to the experts whjo are coming on here we should adopt common sense. Well said Hwice & shropshirelad. (ps have been on a motorlaunch called the shropshire lad which plied on the Severn during the 1950's 60's).Was eventually bought by Jim Minton & son the Welders to be fibre glassed and converted into a cruiser, used for some time before being sold.
At last people talking with common sense which listening to the experts whjo are coming on here we should adopt common sense. Well said Hwice & shropshirelad. (ps have been on a motorlaunch called the shropshire lad which plied on the Severn during the 1950's 60's).Was eventually bought by Jim Minton & son the Welders to be fibre glassed and converted into a cruiser, used for some time before being sold. Jabbadad
  • Score: -2

4:04pm Sat 3 May 14

imustbeoldiwearacap says...

MJI wrote:
Another thing.
.
Due to HS2 and IEP Hitachi are moving their global head quarters to the UK.
.
Mismanagement and foreign purchasers have killed most of our rail industry. Companies such as Alsthom closing down the GEC side. And EE winding up bought by GEC because of poor management. Blame MAN for killing off our Diesel industry, the last British Diesels are now made in France under the MAN name. The British division now just supplying spares for Paxman, Mirlees, Ruston (the MAN engine is a Ruston RK280), and English Electric.
.
So anything to get our railway industry back is good.
If previous administrations had not ignored the railways (both Thatcher and Major being major culprits) and invested in a true modernisation of the rail infrastructure and rolling stock, then maybe we would still have our own self-supporting rail industry. However, I cannot see HST living up to the hype - better to spend the money on other infrastructure projects that benefit the whole of the UK, rather than a vanity project!
[quote][p][bold]MJI[/bold] wrote: Another thing. . Due to HS2 and IEP Hitachi are moving their global head quarters to the UK. . Mismanagement and foreign purchasers have killed most of our rail industry. Companies such as Alsthom closing down the GEC side. And EE winding up bought by GEC because of poor management. Blame MAN for killing off our Diesel industry, the last British Diesels are now made in France under the MAN name. The British division now just supplying spares for Paxman, Mirlees, Ruston (the MAN engine is a Ruston RK280), and English Electric. . So anything to get our railway industry back is good.[/p][/quote]If previous administrations had not ignored the railways (both Thatcher and Major being major culprits) and invested in a true modernisation of the rail infrastructure and rolling stock, then maybe we would still have our own self-supporting rail industry. However, I cannot see HST living up to the hype - better to spend the money on other infrastructure projects that benefit the whole of the UK, rather than a vanity project! imustbeoldiwearacap
  • Score: 3

10:06am Wed 7 May 14

thesquirrel says...

HS2 will be fantastic. I wish we had it yesterday.
HS2 will be fantastic. I wish we had it yesterday. thesquirrel
  • Score: -1

11:14am Wed 7 May 14

Jabbadad says...

And I thought Squirrels were smart cookies. Wrong again.
And I thought Squirrels were smart cookies. Wrong again. Jabbadad
  • Score: 1

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